I think you're no longer talking about only shouts feedback, where i was.

Right now the only sure way to see if the adversary has issued a shout is to watch that tiny little space near the text input in the chat panel. Saying to watch the little dots is nice but let's not forget that in FML we can't watch the match in full detail, we only get parts which can be quite short sometimes. And we'd have to be on the live match tab to see it.(Seriously, please don't tell me you'd be able to see it on the mini-fields on the other tabs :D)
In real life you'd clearly know that a manager has instructed his team to do something else, you might not know what, but at least you'd know for sure that something has changed, in my opinion.

When i mentioned assistants, it was with the meaning that even if you didn't notice something wrong or right with your team, you always have other people near you during a match that can tell you their opinion.

And about being hard to translate statistics to ..hmm.."human language", as a developer myself, i can say that it doesn't(and hasn't) seem to be that hard. We already have an example in the non-Live football manager with the assistant report during matches. That's what it is doing, it is reading the "Home/Away stats" statistical tables and translating them into something anyone can understand.

ANYWAY, this is actually getting long. I have re-subscribed and i am on Fowler too .. if you ever want to continue this over there. Not trying to make other people go away when they see our walls of text :D

(P.S: having this form AFTER the comment list would make it easier for the user to see the comment he is replying to. If you still haven't figured, yes .. i'm anal about all these little things :( :p )

"Because this is supposed to be a tactical battle? Shouldn’t it? I mean, i know that the majority of users play the games at fast speed and don’t care about the tactics as long as they win …easily. But i’m pretty sure i heard Ov say that it was supposed some battle of minds or something.

How do we engage in something like that if we don’t get proper feedback in what we’re doing?"

The feedback is the dots moving around the pitch. I don't see how the game can tell you that something is "working". The ME is far more complex than that, with thousands of variables. The only way you can work out for yourself if it is "working" is by thinking about where the issues are on the pitch and whether your changes have had a positive effect. Now, help in translating the statistics I can understand. But beyond that, the game cannot know whether something is "working" or not - nor can any manager in any walk of life. A tactic that works, wins. That's the simplest feedback. :)

"In my opinion, this statistical information that WE get is a representation of what a real life manager would be seeing in the match field. Let’s not forget the fact that a real life manager would have other people assisting him."

And what do those assistants work on? At the end of the day, learning to read football is the only way you can read how the game is going. No, the manager won't pore over statistical information. He will go on the subjective call of what is going on on the pitch. But the stats help us to see things that may be more intuitive to an experienced football coach.

But again - how can the game tell you if something is working? Other than by reading the stats back to us in a set of bullet points, I don't see how - and these will be contradictory by nature (no tactic does EVERYTHING well). So, at the end of the day, the tactical battle is between the two managers - using their own subjective judgement. That is the battle.

There is no "the" answer - and for that reason, computers will find it very difficult to help you.

YAY .. discussion!

"Why should you? Honestly, why do you think that the game could/should be able to tell you that you made the “right” decision?"

Because this is supposed to be a tactical battle? Shouldn't it? I mean, i know that the majority of users play the games at fast speed and don't care about the tactics as long as they win ...easily. But i'm pretty sure i heard Ov say that it was supposed some battle of minds or something.

How do we engage in something like that if we don't get proper feedback in what we're doing?

"It’s all subjective. A real life manager doesn’t have anything but statistical and subjective info to go on. I don’t see how the game or match engine could give you more information than this."

Ok, i admit, i have no experience as a real life coach/manager but do they rely on statistical information on a game?

In my opinion, this statistical information that WE get is a representation of what a real life manager would be seeing in the match field. Let's not forget the fact that a real life manager would have other people assisting him.

what a load of w***, u fat ****s.

-Platini

"How do we know if the shouts we’ve chose are working? I mean, besides the result or statistics in a totally different panel that will make you not focus on the match field?"

Why should you? Honestly, why do you think that the game could/should be able to tell you that you made the "right" decision?

It's all subjective. A real life manager doesn't have anything but statistical and subjective info to go on. I don't see how the game or match engine could give you more information than this.

This might be a personal opinion, but sporting performance breaks into two sections - the objective; i.e. "did I win or not?" - and the subjective; i.e. "did I play better despite not winning".

The game cannot read everything. Nor can it hand everything to you on a plate. A real life manager has nothing but subjective opinion and stats to go on - and neither should we, imo.

I.M.O, obviously. ;)